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Stuffed…No Logic!

13 Jun

Included in the parcel of documents that we received from the ECHR, Strasbourg, is a copy of the Riom Appeal Court’s Judgement, dated 17 December 2009.

We had not seen the Judgement prior to receiving our file from the ECHR, as was acknowledged by our (third) avocat during the following email conversation held between us:

Relevant excerpt taken from the email received from the avocat on Tuesday 6 April, 2010 at 18:02:23 –

“You need to provide the tax return, all documents justifying your incomes for 2009, or minimum income and the evidence that the court’s decision has been delivered by bailiff (which actually has not been done).

The solicitor (ie the specialist Cour de Cassation avocat) is asking the legal aid office to give you an additional delay……………”

Excerpt taken from my response to the above, sent on Thursday 8 April, 2010 at 12:42:51 –

“Regarding the tax/income avis, we won’t receive that until later this month! All we have to declare for 2009 is the rent for the locataire and the hairdresser, plus my UK State Pension from October 2009……. (I actually did not receive the latter until later in 2010, due to the DWP losing my documents at least twice!).

When the avis arrives at the house, it will be forwarded to us wherever we are. We will complete and return it. Any tax will then become payable in August 2010. There will be no tax to pay, we do not have enough income to pay tax……..”

Eventually, we managed to send evidence of my pensions, UK State and Government, to the Bureau d’Aide just before the end of May 2010, by which time we had secured a further delay with the Bureau d’Aide until July 2010. We also sent evidence of the locataires’ rent being received by the tax office to pay the property taxes, we refused to accept rent directly from the locataires – following advice given to us by our first avocat.

As always, I have supporting documentary evidence to hand and copies are also included in the file sent to us by the ECHR!

So, there we have it – the Cour de Cassation Bureau d’Aide obviously set us up to fail! As we repeatedly told the Bureau d’Aide (in writing) and our avocat (via emails), we could not produce tax documents that did not exist! However, we did send evidence of our 2009 total global income, such as it was and despite the fact that the Mauriac tax office was actually receiving the rental income that we declared.

It gets better! Well, perhaps that wording isn’t really accurate! But, the following revelation made us smile, ie my menfolk et moi – because it is totally without logic and is typically a product of France!

We definitely won at the Riom Appeal Court! Honestly! We won our claim that the sellers, Monsieur and Madame T, defrauded us when they sold us a property that reeked of vice caché!

According to the Court President’s Judgement, Monsieur and Madame T admitted their guilt. Hang in there and I will reproduce the text with the translation!

But, if we won, how did we lose? Why is ‘the pile’ still hanging around our necks?

Ok, the quick answer is that we didn’t express sufficient concern about being trussed up like turkeys and hung out to bleed until we were bled dry – not until after we discovered we had become bleeding dead turkeys! We didn’t raise questions about the hidden fraud before we discovered the hidden fraud!

Therefore, despite the sellers admitting their guilt to the Appeal Court, we were found guilty of not proving their guilt. Ouch!

‘Owzat?

Here’s that text, reproduced straight from the Riom Appeal Court Judgement documents that I have right next to my Netbook –

<Qu’il y a eu une fraude de leur part pour couvrir le bail à……>

Translation – ‘There was a fraud on their part to cover (hide) the lease…’

<Attendu que les négations des époux T concernant le bail du garage confirment qu’ils ne l’ont jamais indiqué aux acquéreurs….>

Translation – ‘Despite their other denials, the T’s confirmed that they never told the buyers about the lease concerning the garage.’

<Qu’il y a eu un dol de leur part à dissimuler le bail tant à l’agent immobilier qu’aux acquéreurs.>

Translation – ‘There was a fraud on their part to cover (hide) the lease from the buyers and the real estate agent.’

However, here’s where we (apparently) went wrong –

<Qu’aucun élément du dossier ne démontre qu’ils ont attaché une quelconque importance à ces locaux.>

Translation – ‘No evidence on the record shows that they (we) have attached any importance to these areas.’

Mmmmmmmm, we obviously should have had our crystal ball primed to tell us all about the hidden tenants and their hidden Contracts before we purchased the property. Clearly, commencing a vice caché lawsuit within hours of discovering the fraud doesn’t adequately express our horror and anger at being forced to attach importance to the tenants!

There’s a lot more, including the opinion of the Court that the justices did not believe it important that we needed (and our architect attested that we had obtained Planning permission for) the disability lift to be installed in the garage because that was the only location agreed by the Planning Office. What! It was certainly important to us that we avoided having a bundle with the Planning Officer before we had even got our feet under the table of Madame France! However, it’s possible that the justices and the Planning Officer eat at the same restaurants. Just a thought!

It’s not worth me taking this crystal ball back to whence it came, French Customer Services staff don’t generally ‘do’ returns!

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11 Comments

Posted by on June 13, 2013 in World

 

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11 responses to “Stuffed…No Logic!

  1. Kay

    June 13, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    Do these so called experts acting on your behalf not read their cases properly so that they can at least present the facts in a clear and precise manner so that the judges know at least what they are supposed to judge on? You would think that with the tonnes of evidence that you have provided they could at least get their facts right. They are all a disgrace to their profession. What does constitute justice in this country because I am blowed if I know. Keep up the fight Chrissie hard as it maybe you never know the law of averages might just turn in your favour one day with any luck. Someone somewhere has got to see what everyone else has missed… haven’t they?

     
  2. Susie Kelly

    June 13, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    I can’t imagine what this is doing to your blood pressure. It’s sending mine through the roof. There really are no adequate words to describe these shenanigans. Is there a French translation of shenanigans?

     
    • hobosinfrance

      June 18, 2013 at 8:11 pm

      Here you go, Susie – the rather loose translation of shenanigans is conneries (thank you, Kay!), lol! But, loose translation or whatever, you’re quite right, six years supply of shenanigans are what the French justice system have given us! The menfolk don’t appear to have too many problems with their blood pressure, but mine regularly soars to the heavens! Hey ho, I’m used to it now, though! Hope all is going well for you, Susie? C & menfolk xxxx

       
  3. Robert Allbright.

    June 14, 2013 at 12:52 am

    Sounds like they look after their own country folk regardless of your intention to move to their country to retire and not spend several winters camping! What a load of tosh! In the meantime the stupid bastards suffer a double or triple dip, I’m not surprised! My only concern for our neighbours is we’re part of the same union, yet both are chalk n cheese, I’m looking forward to visiting but the 20 miles between Dover n Calais is wonderful! Pissed of xx

     
    • hobosinfrance

      June 18, 2013 at 7:29 pm

      🙂 Hello Bob, it’s wonderful to e-see you, son, and I know only too well how difficult the past six years have also been for you and the rest of our UK-based family members. Just bear with us, my love, everything comes to those who wait – even justice in France! We look forward so much to seeing you in August, in fact, we can’t wait! Much love to you all from the four of us. Mum & Co xxxxxx

       
  4. Sarah

    June 14, 2013 at 9:09 am

    You wonder which planet these types live on, don’t you. Don’t they reread what they write and pause to think that it makes no sense? What warped thinking and the worst of it is, these people have power. They shouldn’t be in charge of filling a paper bag let alone people’s property!

     
    • hobosinfrance

      June 18, 2013 at 7:18 pm

      We now believe the justices didn’t consider any of our evidence, Sarah, and they certainly didn’t appear to have been concerned about whether or not their Judgement made sense! Er…the menfolk and I believe they live on Planet Zog! Thank you for being there for us, as you always are there for us. xxxx

       
  5. Tracey Vincent

    June 14, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    Chrissie, each time you update us, I shake my head in despair and think “now I’ve heard it all” but the hits just keep on coming!!!! I really don’t think that there is an adequate word in any language to describe the level of utter stupidity expressed here. Each of our three dogs have got more common sense in their backsides than the morons supposedly administering so called justice in this country.

     
    • hobosinfrance

      June 18, 2013 at 6:52 pm

      Bless you, Tracey, I love it when you draw comparisons between your much-loved canines and the French judiciary – quite simply, I know you’re spot on! I must admit, now having a full translation of the Appeal Court Judgement to hand, we know that we had no chance whatever of obtaining justice through the Courts here. But, we’ll see if the EUJ and the European Ombudsman can dredge up some justice for us! 😉 xxxx

       
  6. Pip

    June 15, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    I hate the expression but gob-smacked comes immediately to mind.

    I simply despair of this so called civilised country of France.

    I remain in total admiration of your strength and perseverance in the face of so many numpties.

    Is there no one out there in authority that can see that they appear to be living in the same world as their Napoleonic forebears. I just hope to God that eventually the Court of Human Rights will do something right for a change.

    Fingers have been re-crossed!!

    Keep strong all of you.

     
    • hobosinfrance

      June 18, 2013 at 6:24 pm

      Hi Pip, the menfolk and I are hoping the EUJ recognises the fact that we have, thus far, been deprived of justice throughout the past six long years. If that doesn’t happen, then, we will rely on my blog and (eventually) my book to reach the vast majority of folks who are planning to buy property in France. Forewarned is forearmed and we will, at least, be able to offer food for thought! Thank you, Pip – as always, we know you’re there for us and, unusual though it is, I’m feeling rather low right now. Your crossed fingers represent such stalwart support for us, as they have been throughout, and we appreciate them and you so very much. 🙂 Chrissie and menfolk xxxx

       

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